To promote the high-quality development of interdisciplinary studies in support of basic research, the Natural Science Foundation of China (NSFC) founded its Department of Interdisciplinary Sciences in 2020 with the mission of breaking down boundaries between academic disciplines and promoting original, innovative projects.

The second Interdisciplinary Science Summit was held in Hangzhou on Dec. 7, 2023. Led by the NSFC and organized by Westlake University, the summit was hosted by Prof. Yongjun Chen, former acting deputy director of the Department of Interdisciplinary Sciences of the NSFC, and attended by four prominent academicians: Prof. Chao Tang, Prof. Weijian Pan, Prof. Jinghai Li, and Prof. Yigong Shi.

As part of the proceedings, a 60-minute panel discussion was held around the topic “the opportunities and challenges faced by interdisciplinarity.”

Research Projects: Go as Far as Possible and Do Something That Has Never Been Done Before

The first question raised by the group was simply, “What are interdisciplinary studies? Can we design or establish roadmaps toward interdisciplinary projects?”

Prof. Jianwei Pan, acting deputy president of the University of Science and Technology of China, was invited to respond to this question in light of his many years of research on quantum information.

Quantum information is the study of the states of quantum systems. As a new interdisciplinary field, it kicked off the second quantum revolution and was regarded as indispensable when the interdisciplinary science department was still in its embryonic stages. Pan shared the story of how he got into interdisciplinary studies and how he has benefited from them. He also offered three pieces of advice.

“My initial interest was in examining the foundations of quantum mechanics. From the beginning, I was drawn toward interdisciplinary studies. We studied photon interference—first with three photons, then four, then five. When I finished my Ph.D. thesis in 1999, I felt that we had taken this research as far as we could and that we needed to change direction.”

He continued, “However, before I could look for a new direction, I had to dive deeper into the original research: How could we enhance the brightness for better visibility? How could we improve detection efficiency? We were lucky. Before we knew it, we were working with six protons and even eight. The problems that had seemed insurmountable were gradually conquered.”

The rest is history. “We launched QUESS (Quantum Experiments at Space Scale) on board the Mozi satellite to perform quantum optics experiments in space. At first, we didn’t even dare to apply for funding. Then, in 2001, we received 400,000 yuan from the NSFC, which felt like a lot at the time. When we started to work on the space project itself, our plan was to apply for 1 million yuan for the initial experiments. If they went well, we’d apply for 5 million. Later, it became 10 million! Step by step, we were on our way to developing and launching a satellite.”

The first piece of advice Pan offered was to start small. Take the first step and see what happens. Be honest about your progress and be honest when applying for funding.

“Our biggest challenge back then was that quantum information was a brand-new field. We could only do a few experiments. The first time we applied for funding from the NSFC, we were told our research was ‘hot air’ and that it was ‘not going to work’. We didn’t get the money. That was before we had the Department of Interdisciplinary Sciences. Physicists thought we were just messing around with information science, and information scientists were unimpressed with our ‘byte-sized’ results. That’s why it was so important to have a Department of Interdisciplinary Sciences that encouraged free exploration among scientists. A research project, if it goes well, may become a whole new discipline, which is what happened with quantum information. If it doesn’t, then the principle of survival of the fittest will make that clear.”

Pan’s second piece of advice was to be resilient when faced with questions and challenges. “Others will quite openly judge you—to this day, we still get it. As long as you believe in what you are doing, stick to it.”

He recalled, “Many times, we were asked, ‘Is the US working on this? Or perhaps Europe?’ Funnily enough, the West didn’t start investing in quantum information until after we successfully launched QUESS. Recently, a friend went back to work at Harvard. He asked what they were doing in the physics department and learned that they were working on quantum information. He was told, ‘Since China launched QUESS, we can get the funding.’”

The third piece of advice Pan gave was to go as far as possible and do things that have never been done before.

Supporting Talent: Research Is a Top-Down Process, but We Need To Support Talent From the Bottom Up

As Pan says, the importance of interdisciplinarity lies in its support for free exploration. Universities are the frontline of scientific research, but are we offering space for free exploration to our researchers?

Westlake University is the first nonprofit private university supported by public and private funding in China. Over the past five years, we have consistently and systematically supported the development of interdisciplinary research. At the very heart of the Yungu Campus is a 500-meter-long curved gallery—the Academic Ring—that connects every one of the hundreds of labs in the School of Science, the School of Engineering, and the School of Life Sciences under one roof, providing common spaces where researchers from different disciplines and with different interests can come together.

President Yigong Shi shared Westlake’s experience at the roundtable.

“Westlake University was founded with a clear objective: to become a world-class institution with excellence in cutting-edge research and innovative teaching. When we talk about research, we mean interdisciplinary research. Conventional research could get us somewhere, but it’s a narrow path. We hope to break new ground in interdisciplinary studies and lead in that direction.”

He went on, “Our approach is also simple: research is done top-down, but we need to support our talent from the bottom-up. Interdisciplinary research comes from top-notch scientists who need to intermingle and discuss. The university doesn’t guide, design, or lead the discussion. So, what do we do?”

As he explained, “First, we provide funding. If a principal investigator comes up with a real interdisciplinary research project that lacks funding, he can ask the school and university for help, which we usually provide. But the key word here is ‘real’. I don’t mean a simple mix-and-match between two disciplines.”

He continued, “Second, we assist with system design. Interdisciplinary research requires cross-departmental communication, which can be a difficult process. Therefore, the university should offer support in system design. Take our Ph.D. program, for example. To run an interdisciplinary program, we need to break away from the conventional course system. How can that be done? For example, if a student needs to get 10 credits, and all 10 courses are related to chemistry, does that count as interdisciplinary? But if they only take two chemistry courses, will the chemistry department offer them a degree?

“At Westlake, we have adopted a dual-hiring system. A Ph.D. advisor can be hired by both the School of Engineering and the School of Life Sciences and can be given a doctoral student quota from each school. Advisors can work across schools, and so can the students. We encourage students to apply in this way. Take the School of Engineering, for example. If a student there wants me as his advisor, I’d be happy to agree, as long as he convinces me that he has a good project. His main advisor might be in the School of Engineering, but the student can still join my team meetings, be under my guidance, and participate in all the academic activities in the School of Life Sciences.”

Student Training: Don’t Turn Research Questions Into Discipline Questions

Prof. Chao Tang, director of the Department of Interdisciplinary Sciences at the NSFC, and the acting dean of the Academy for Advanced Interdisciplinary Studies at Peking University, agreed with the “top-down” model of free exploration. He believes that having a shared research question and interest provides the foundation for all possibilities.

Exploring this topic further, Tang shared his perspective on the importance of creating the right environment for interdisciplinary studies.

“I agree with President Shi and Prof. Pan that interdisciplinary studies call for communication across disciplines. In the past, we didn’t have the mechanisms or the ambience for it. Therefore, universities today need to create such an environment for interdisciplinary studies to blossom—hosting events and bringing advisors with different directions together.”

The successful collaboration between Prof. Xiaoliang Xie and Prof. Jie Qiao began with an event like this. We invited the medical school faculty to talk about problems they were encountering in their clinical work. Qiao talked about filtering out faulty fertilized eggs during IVF, and Xie offered to try to solve the problem using the latest single-cell sequencing technology. The rest, once again, is history.”

Westlake University hosts a variety of such academic activities, two of which are particularly good examples:

One is the weekly interdisciplinary luncheons. Each luncheon is hosted by one of the principal investigators, while the rest of the attendees are free to eat and talk. Over the past five years, many successful collaborations have begun at these informal events.

The other is News and Ideas, an open discussion that leads with a piece of frontline science-related news, such as Elon Musk’s establishment of Neuralink. The discussion can head off anywhere from there. These events are open to all faculty and students across all schools and disciplines.

Tang emphasized the need to create an environment where people are encouraged to work on what they are passionate about and are not limited to what they are studying or what they have studied.

“We hope to develop a sense of interdisciplinarity among the undergraduate students before they get walled in by what they learn. When contemplating a scientific question, don’t define it by discipline, like ‘is it a math problem, a physics one, or a biology one?’ Think of it as a science problem and use what you have learned in school or from experiments to come up with a way to solve it.”

Organizational Systems: Why Does Everyone Pay Lip Service to the Idea but Not Come Together To Achieve It?

As the roundtable drew to a close, the discussion circled back to the question, “Where do issues arise with interdisciplinary studies and how do we support them, particularly in relation to scientific talent?”

Prof. Jinghai Li, former Party Secretary and director of the NSFC, recalled the situation three years ago, before the Department of Interdisciplinary Sciences was established.

“Since our founding in 1986, the NSFC has always taken interdisciplinary studies seriously. When we reviewed projects, we always encouraged our experts to support this kind of work. In 2018, we began advocating for three changes: clarifying our funding criteria; establishing a review mechanism; and maximizing our discipline allocation. These three changes could not have been achieved without organizational-level changes.”

He went on, “We ran our own surveys: What jeopardized interdisciplinary development? How come we received verbal support but did not achieve actual results? Long-term difficulties called for fundamental changes.”

Li summarized their findings in four points:

1) Interdisciplinary research projects were the trend, but it was a global challenge to fund them. Major research institutes across the world faced the same difficulty with complex funding application processes and imperfect reviewing systems. These factors dampened the enthusiasm of researchers when considering seeking funding for interdisciplinary projects.

2) Interdisciplinary studies went against the trend of segmentation in academia. Without interdisciplinary studies, conventional studies could only grow within existing boundaries, creating areas of “knowledge limbo” along the borders.

3) Reform in research was inevitable. New ways of conducting research were needed to make groundbreaking achievements with global influence. Otherwise, we risked missing the opportunity to develop and journey beyond current scientific frontiers.

4) China had gained ground in the development of interdisciplinary studies, but we still lacked efficient management and organization models as well as a functioning review system. We needed to create an environment where everyone is systematically and comprehensively supported.

How Did the Interdisciplinary Department Come Into Being?

“Without the Department of Interdisciplinary Sciences, we’d miss out on the real revolution, which would plant the seeds of risk, threatening our future development in science,” Li said.

“We were determined. The interdisciplinary department would explore new ways to conduct research and would take on the major issues facing interdisciplinary studies. We set up this new mechanism to support interdisciplinary studies and encourage the cultivation of interdisciplinary talents.

“It’s been three years now, and I am seeing free communication between academics here at our roundtable today. Without the interdisciplinary science department, we wouldn’t have such a diverse attendance. Three years ago, I said at the inauguration ceremony that the interdisciplinary science department was new and that we needed to wholeheartedly support its development with enthusiasm and tolerance.”

The participants in the roundtable were left with the impression of an honest and candid discussion.

The words of the academicians clearly conveyed their passion and concern for science.

Prof. Yongjun Chen offered a final thought: “Let’s break the rules while upholding the rules.”

Does that sound like a paradox? This is the challenge faced by interdisciplinary studies, and it also suggests how they can flourish.